The Last Roadmap: Roadmaps ARE Dead... but You Never Really Had One. | AA271

The last road map. That's pitch I'd make Om if was selling products and or services and wanted to convince you that AI has made building software so cheap there's just no reason to even bother planning and maintaining road map anymore. The road map is finally dead Om! [UH] stop planning. Just ship things. Just it. Just Nike your way out. like it. Yes. That's never caused problems past, right? Never. No. What can go wrong? don't know. Oh boy [UM] here's my problem with all this Brian. 25 years ago, 17 dudes got together at a ski lodge in Utah and they were dealing with this exact same thing. And they came up after, think was like just weekend or whatever with some things. Most notably the three things that I'll pull out from there. Responding to change over following plan. Right? That's one them. The one is work should be done by self -organizing motivated teams. And the third one is business folks and developers must work together daily Yes. And is too early no no no never too early. Never too early for yes. And if I were giving this talk, was get to open up your wallet to pay for this, I probably also would reinvent wheel with new language. And then I'd sell you my must have and totally proprietary tires. Like you invented them. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. this is, know, this is a parallelism to other things we've seen from decades ago as well. Listen, if those kids could read, they'd be really angry with us. Just, I'm not worried Welcome back Arguing Agile. And this your first time. Welcome. I'm your host product manager Brian Lando and this is my co -host enterprise agility leader and the breaker of bottlenecks, Mr. Om Patel. if I'm right here, if someone frames that the roadmap is dead that they're just prepping you to, to pitch you this funeral for something that product management never really fully owned first place like that's going talk about today. all right. So my turn say yes and oh yeah. So you're say yaas queen. kind podcast we running here? Yes. And so we're take all four values and 12 principles of the agile manifesto and put it next someone claiming that this A.I. enabled pitch might say, And these the this the promise for today. know, for anyone listening, what says screen is the roadmap quote roadmap that died was gantt chart first place. wasn't really a roadmap. Right. So we're to, we're lobby against things and say, oh, you're all doing roadmaps wrong. And then we're to accuse people that we're never even doing roadmaps the first place. The second one is We're to set down convictions without customers and talking customers and having relationships. we're to, we're relabel contracts now and to call them convictions. Right? Which people did anyway Goals. call them strategies, they were just contracts. Anyway, you'll this by this date or else you notice I threw in or else there just little, little salt bae or else And then last one that leadership has withheld this empowerment permission for 20 years, 25 years. Nothing's changed. Nothing's changed since Agile Manifesto. Yeah. Which which I feel like that was it. If people going throw rocks, the agile manifesto and claim that like this doesn't work, it's just cash grab or whatever. I would claim the movement did work because all this stuff has made its way into like modern work cultures. It's just most people not educated point they track back to this. But what most people have heard of is all people trying make a buck off agile, which is where most people's experience comes from. Not the, not concept. You know, yeah, they hear but it's, it's dressed up right. And something completely different. So don't really recognize. That's true. Like you're dealing with the business of you're not dealing with the movement of. Exactly. so like any good murder investigation, let's start with the body. Yes What actually died here. Right. What a that road map anyway, Brian Well, [UH] Roadmap map is where you just dictate your team when they're have things done. You just you vomit onto a board with swim lanes and diamonds top. And Henry Gantt might have invented it. don't know. no, seriously. The roadmap list of [UH] problems and or outcomes depending type roadmap using that a business willing to pivot around. sometimes you'll have dates the forms in the form of things are happening in the ecosystem that you have to respond to. Right. And that's OK we had we had three podcasts on roadmaps. Yeah. So to put us on pause here and go back and watch three podcasts. That's lot. I just give three hours homework. But if your roadmap has dates and swim lanes and quarterly commitments that the board or executives your boss or your grandma or whatever asks you do and put them there you can't change them whatever. You have a gantt chart called a roadmap. don't have roadmap. Right? Because I get that out early in this podcast. Yeah. know some of you squirming your seats right now or on your treadmill. But I will say some roadmaps have those dates for reasons that are extraneous external regulatory dates. For example, you have to do this by this date. Right? Fine. But least know that and it's not sprung upon you immediately. You've known for while. You have some, know, some headway. So can work around that or work toward that. And don't say, oh yeah, but look, know, we're hiding behind this because it is date it's not ours. It's that you've had months. Yeah. So that's not even excuse that[UH] you know, I'm willing entertain because yeah, so what? Right? You've known about it. So that's only thing can imagine people pushing back on saying, but it's not our deadline. It's, know, it's regulatory deadline. It's like, yeah, it is. But you've known about it long time. Yeah. mean, mean, that's also the reason that when somebody with C suite title announces that the road maps are dead, know [UH] does lot hand wavy motions and maybe has something sell you that they're waiting hit with in the third act. Yeah I'm highly, highly skeptical. they're going sell a roadmap tool usually tool but roadmap tool or process or framework or consulting hours something that. Like I'm highly skeptical going that because like those folks since my career first intersected with agile movement like I've seen those folks all over place at every turn. There's someone there trying sell you something. It's like if you're trying to it cool follow manifesto is like principles. don't really need that. You really don't need any that, know. And would say some that stuff is and, and! Oh, that's right. We've got do right anyway. need like and And anyway I would say that some that stuff is actively detrimental, especially comes tool providers. You know that there's ton tool providers and none them offer really great road maps. lot. Most them are just gantt charts laid on top so that your executives can get that nice feeling that they're quote doing agile. But really tool provider is like holding you back by selling you something that they know. where the gap is. But hey, it's lucrative. Yeah, understand. I'm not calling any tool providers by way. I'm not trying bash anyone except[spits in disgust] Jira. that's this section. So what, what about what roadmap we talking about? What exactly for sale? selling? So had three podcasts just to bring everyone speed. I'm start from the oldest arguing agile 72, gantt gantt charts in agile software development from August 2022. We had arguing agile 103 challenges to building a product roadmap from March 2023. That's where we talked about vision, mission goals, strategy, that kind stuff basically everything stops you upstream from developing good roadmap. That was one three. And Arguing Agile 113, debating outcome based versus output based road maps from May 2023. Three solid episodes on this topic. If you want to know more about road maps now that we talked about all kinds road maps and the manifesto's value four responding to change over following plan. You know, there's some arguments that are going say Brian. Oh, come on. Come on. Take seriously. Listen, roadmaps are dead. Long live the transformation roadmap. always everything's always dead and dying. And next thing is coming along and someone's to pay, know, someone's be paying top dollar for it and just get over yourself. What what you care [UH] boy. Well, know, listen, have say the scene is probably right here too because this happens all time. This is basically evolution in our industry. not not good. What comes and goes. Yeah, not necessarily good. Yes, agreed you know, but yeah, what's new today be old tomorrow. There'll be something else its place. I mean, listen I agree with the cynic on some level of welcome tech. Right. Like these people are like in the in their 20s and like acting like oh everything's agenetic. Now you can don't need roadmap. move too fast. Like cute kid. Yeah. Get back in the play pen. These people probably weren't even born when manifesto was hatched. I didn't know when hit this point podcast, but knew were going hit the point some point of because was done history is not relevant me. Get office, old man. Like that, I knew we're hit that point some point. It's like all of history. is the most postmodern argument make is like because I didn't discover it. must not be valuable to be discovered. Right. And they're just reinventing, know small team who's empowered and is close the problem can do lot faster, can do things lot faster than know this whole month long gantt chart nonsense, know, steering. Of course. Yeah. Okay. Smart grasshopper. This has been done[UH]I'd say grasshopper say grasshopper. I deleted some letters. didn't know. There's an academic here who's to say. And that's actually good point. the academic being the person who they really have not done stuff them. know, they, they know the theory but they don't really do this day day. know, the academic will say that planning always has value and consultants can be beneficial because they can sell back your company with the individual teams never could because you know individual there the individual teams are there the carpet like nobody even notices them they walk all over them your workplace. But consultants because they're getting paid they can sell this back. So like, listen, don't throw all these people trying sell stuff under bus real quick, Brian, because there's some value here Yeah. So the academic is describing life that lived for long time as a consultant. Right But when you speak to people at your client site, it's not like all of them are, know, not on board with what you're saying. some them actually have been saying same thing their leadership all along. But it was poopooed or just basically buried and not listened to. And that's because that reason is you're internal you know, you just get back your lane, go back desk and do some stuff. So yes, consultants can say the same thing. Probably dressed up little. But it's price. It's valued. Right Because fact that they're getting paid. So it's one those ROI things like being consultant better make sure that it's worth their while or worth our while paying them. mean, so that's what happens with the academic point view. It's true today. I dare say that's always to stay true because you're always have advisers. Right And they will come in and they will give you the same message or slightly different but essentially the same message. Right? That's always be there give another argument. this one is very close. They're very clear. keep this one. It's for my top pocket. Oh, my functional top pocket, by way, for all only one with hole in it. No, no. I mean, maybe there's hole but I would never notice. the day practitioner I was gonna say listen most road maps in wild are gantt charts. Like who cares? Let let I kill them. Take the win. Get on life. It's hard argue against this too because it is really an easy win. Right[UH] I mean that point they're saying well what's road map? It's board. Throw something at it. Right? Yeah, right. is. It's listen, it's, [UH] I want like this one but I feel that it's shorttsighted ways that you're going get yourself lot trouble just kind throwing lot in and not really questioning. did anyone really think about this? What are long term ramifications this? Yeah. Yeah, I agree I think it's those leaders that are just putting all their chips into the AI lane or whatever call it on roulette table yeah, those people are most susceptible to this because they're sold this right from yet another consulting group who's peddlingdling AI] and all the benefits that it brings supposedly. individuals and interactions over process and tools. that's the section. I guess if worry about roadmap. But against a pitch is coming with this. So rather than buy your tool, your services mean [UH] are you selling transformation services that tries to put our teams closer to the, the customers that we're serving? Because in that case, in that case you're just doing another transformation grift like that's I lived through that. Mm hmm. You know, more than once I lived through that tech. let's we have some better points. That's I'm asking. we have some better points? think we do we already talked about Gantt charts that they were always a project function, not product function. And you're doing them and you're having those dates stuff like that. Congratulations. Like you're doing Marty Cagan's product theater. That's it. Yeah. Not lot that one I like this. like this funeral funnel. It's hard say funeral funnel. I do like it because you first you declare the old thing dead and then you spin up a business or consultancy or something to sell the transition and then you rinse and repeat to keep yourself business. this next thing is that we sell solution. Then this next thing is dead. So it's important for people to understand shape of this because when the FOMO hits, selling the fears because they're what they're selling. Yeah. When FOMO hits, people can look at it and kind of say, this looks like last thing. Yeah, unfortunately though, consultants are very good this. Yeah. And the best company could do there to say, you know, this consultant sold us this didn't, they didn't really work out. We're to swap another one. And then rinse and repeat basically in the end. Right. Because the other one to sell you same sort strategy anyway Yeah, funeral funnel is real. there is a point on here that think deserves debate. OK, the last one says transformations that leave decision rights untransformed are contracts for tooling services basically. Right. That's that's straightforward. we kind talked about earlier. Yeah, think. But think point number three, point number three for those you listening says plans rank below reducing ambiguity. And the manifesto it says that the manifesto says. So I'm say manifesto like heavily implies that plans rank below like making path towards reducing ambiguity. But the one that I think is worth arguing, it says cheap building doesn't change any this. I think that's one that know, again, if if these AI- kids could read, think they would argue with that one. Right She building doesn't change any of this about your plans and reducing ambiguity because the argument they'll say is, well, can put out 30 prototypes in week and one them will hit with the customers. And then doesn't that prove that can reduce ambiguity because before you run like you know four five six sprints whatever maybe whole quarter just figure out what right thing to build was. And was very, expensive. Just run rate. Very expensive. Yeah And think this case, mean, they're probably arguing the point for time reduction. Right? That, that's the real thing. But for them be standing on solid ground with their argument, it assumes that they're actually engaging with the customer Churning out these 30 things week. Like if you're not engaging with customer, you're just saying, we'll just do these things and hopefully something will stick. Well, luck to So in that scenario, yeah, they're, they're not really doing anything productive. And [UH] it feels like illusion of progress at that point so it's probably true. But also there's lot chatter from these folks. must say this one because is the, this is probably the best point from these slides to argue on. The what will come back from these folks is well now the whole makeup of the agile team. They won't say agile team. They'll mean agile team. The whole make up agile team now is different because before used be like five engineers, product manager, maybe like half UX person's time whatever. Maybe tester. You know, have a little more larger organization. Right very quickly get like seven, eight people. now you get like half of an engineer's time. You get product manager and go you know, no designers because we don't value designers now[UH] I know the designer jobs have. Let me know Internet. Let me know comments if designer jobs have picked back up because I, I don't, I've not recovered I've not financially recovered world year half ago. like design jobs were just dropping off and getting killed by AI. know mean? Because AI can can do it used thing it couldn't. can't do, you know, quality design. But yeah, that's what Daddy Dario was out there telling everyone Well, yeah, mean it's worth every penny you spend it. think it's, think exaggeration to say cheap building changes nothing. I think is exaggeration say cheap building changes nothing. On one hand, this is why I'm conflicted this one. But other hand even the value building is zero and can jam out 10 prototypes. Again, talked about this different podcast. what are you going get your customer the phone? Every prototype to look through every prototype and give critical like how many prototypes can you put front someone until you just exhaust their ability to discern. Yeah, it's like me I, when I, I think about the software that I use manage podcast. How many times can I look the flow of like video podcast through the tool before I just become completely blind to a new user's onboarding experience. is unfamiliar with tool. How many times is that? A dozen to 20 Like, don't know what number but there is number and I'm way over it. will tell you now I need outside perspective, I see you exhausting people's attention way faster by just not respecting your time and throwing out a 10, 12, 15 prototypes. You know, this what I meant partially, know, when I said it's illusion of progress you're saying, look, I've got 15 things for you look at. Give feedback. Right. So I like option number five and maybe little piece of seven. OK, but how often can get that customer to talk you? Right So you're right. It's just way much. so we have some takeaways here Number one, I'm say stop defending quote the roadmap because you may not know what condition that roadmap is. You don't know. know, mean, it might be artifact chart. Who knows? Yeah. Stop defending the roadmap. I'm not trying stay. I'm not trying to defend status quo on this podcast We're stopping defending roadmap and we're to start asking what type roadmap we have that is dying and which one we're being sold as its replacement. So it's too easy questions. We have some other things. have some notes here. know is is roadmap really a gantt chart signs off the roadmap decisions and the budget because as I say on other podcasts, whoever owns budget is real product manager. I know y'all don't like hearing say that but it's the truth and I'm keep saying it and in transformation proposal. Who can tell team? No. Yeah. Who's person can make decisions? Take take this road map or whatever it is behind the shed and shoot it Yeah. Well you know who normally is that person in normal companies who does that quietly without having to go talk to teams or go talk managers whatever. It's finance. They just take money away. And then that's most like what work can sub in for chicken **** it's most cowardly way that companies constrain teams without directly treating them like human beings. Oh, money their oxygen. So you know you're to asphyxiate them. Big word. Right that's way normal companies will do that. They'll, cut teams they'll cut funding or they'll or they will starve teams by reducing their team members. Right to get the outcome they want. And it's, it's, it's shocking that the Silicon people don't have deal with this you know, mean, they're dealing now because.I. is it's, it's doing this, saying, oh, you've got a team of five people. you know, best can do is [UH] 50 cents like, you know, and.I. tool that costs, seven people's seven million dollars. What progress. It's funny. right. So here's the question for you. When your leadership says the roadmap is dead, are they burying a list of features and dates or a list of problems and outcomes? Like what exactly is that? That's what want know and what they offering as replacement? What they trying sell you on instead? OK, so know comments. So, Om! if the roadmap really is dead gone, then something has replace Right Yeah. So something like durable convictions or disposable features. Durable convictions, disposable features. Sounds like design wisdom, right? Rock sand. No, yeah, cute [UH] feeling cute [UH] might cut your budget [UH] Yeah. So most companies don't have durable conviction problem. I'm just to, I'm just go out on record and state that now and let the Internet take me to task on that one. They don't have durable conviction problem. Most companies have a new strategy problem or a hippo decides everything problem So you just describe 99 percent the companies out there. mean, only you live the land of magic. And [UH] Marty Cagan, Marty Cagan is magic. That's learned today is the convictions that they do have have always, always been set in a room without AI-enabled builders or product people or customers or whatever. the board and executives will come down will hand you your roadmap and you'll have to build it. And that like that's how feature factory which is again there's numbers this but would feel it's probably solid 50 percent if not majority of people roadmaps out there are living this world. I think it's safe saying majority So the Agile Manifesto has a name for conviction handed down without collaboration It's called contract Oh, surprise. Oh, oh my goodness. old, the old customer collaboration over contract negotiations we're talking about. That's the one. It's it's so funny that that years in all the years nobody has put together that like when your boss or executives whatever hand you, you must do this thing by this date. Like the roadmap like that. It's contract negotiator because don't do the contract, get fired. it's wild that nobody's ever made that connection until now. Right?[UH] Collaboration outranks contracts. This has been going on for a long, time long time. So yeah, I'm I'm hit steel man right away because I know that I know there's somebody out there who's say right now, just got disagree and commit. OK, leadership sets vision. The teams execute. That's your job. Stay in your lane, bro. Good grief. Yeah, I know heavy, right? Yeah, that's pretty heavy. It's heavy, doc. Yeah. Disagree commit. Also, also, if you're interested in disagree and commit, we have episode arguing agile to 49 disagree and commit corporate gaslighting do about it. From Febr long ago. I forgot February 2026. was a great episode. I guarantee you that you'll laugh. You'll cry. You'll have good time. That's what I'm saying. leadership sets vision teams execute. This is like this like being told go do a battle. And know, the odds stacked way against you. But have to do it because still say so. March forward. I can't tell if the cynical point here was supposed be defending status quo or like or or being snarky about the status quo. The latter I think it's [UH] yeah, I wrote this so I'm pretty sure it is latter because they're being cynical about right goodness. Yeah, they're basically saying you can't do anything like the status quo is status quo. Just you need deal with it because what do? Right? Yeah, get board. team player is good boy or least seem like team player. Yeah, right. Right boy. think cynic here I think need to take a step back. Yeah, have drink. We need do something because yeah, it's pretty heavy Let's move on the academic here. Oh, strategy is stable. Yeah, but tactics adapt it's nice think that strategy stable. Isn't Well, it is until changes. It's stable. right [UH] mean, how many times have we seen that where strategy changes typically whenever there's leadership change or sometimes even with the stable leadership, it's quarter on quarter. Now we're doing this because they that themselves get it handed down from up on high. sure do. Right. So this is, it's not when we say stable, it's not with any level of permanence it's just stable for now. I mean, first all, good point. Strategy should be stable over time. And the tactics use, which is the teams, what the teams are subjected to. Yeah, especially feature factor. Right [UM] changes and it could change rapidly. So that could be thing. However, I would say like show your proof about this one. Like give me some receipts here because like you know, OK, strategy should be stable. But [UH] in my experience, what you just said is more commonplace of when a new leader comes in. We have a big strategy swing and have big rebranding reorg or whatever, know, whatever the whatever call it when you see teams getting shifted around, people getting shifted around or products getting shifted around something like that. That is very chaotic. Like a strategy pivot is extremely chaotic and strategy pivots could sink whole product company [UH] know, both. Yeah, mean, leadership being stable aside, know, the company could go through M&A. So got strategies changing there. Right, right. So yeah, there's so many different vectors into that. I understand the academic saying, but in reality, it's no, it's not this where it's why it's the academic. It's not in the real world. It's not stable. It's not. And also, to sign on to the normal day day product manager practitioner. I 100 percent agree with this deal man is what are you talking about? don't have strategy. We talk about durable whatever like don't have any strategies. But strategy is whoever the loudest screaming voices. That's what we do. Yeah. And as long that person can be loud screaming for a long period time, we're to keep servicing them or or or customer. Right Because I've been with I've been a company that more 50 percent of I think 60 between 60 70 percent their business was from one customer. And you basically had to drop what you're doing when that customer calls that. mean, you just had to. There's no strategy there. No, the strategy is very fickle. Right mean, like said, loudest voice. mean, can be internal too. We were pretty sure we've all come across situations where you know an influential salesperson comes in upends what you're doing because know they've just got this big opportunity. They're chasing. Yeah at day, the teams really don't have lot say this But what they can do is shift left foot, right foot. However, do it under protest. Make sure that people know the cost of shifting if they don't know that, then you're shift even more. So they know that, least just say we're doing all this work and we're stop. Yeah. Is that throwaway? If is, that's worst case scenario. But if pick up later, you still have that switching cost and all that make sure that people are aware it. Yeah. Customer collaboration over contract negotiation. That would be the that would be what's going on in this category So if there's better points, we're to ask where strategy came from. That's the first thing we're going do. We're ask strategy came from Then we're get box then we're going clear our desk out because that's your last day. Was weird because you're clearing desk out, and you live there, you live at home. So you're clearing desk at home. That's right. That's right. So no customer plus no builders equals you working contract. Sure. You know not. It doesn't be like contract outside company contract with outside people. Like most likely you're working contract inside of your own teams and or company. You know, don't have a road map. have a contract. Someone's handed you thing. you an implicit contract. Right. Or it can be a budget. And therefore it's explicit contract. So there's, usually outcomes attached to these budgets that's internal contract or implicit or explicit outcomes. Yeah. Yes. Right. Exactly. Because sometimes those outcomes are they just get scope creeped and scope creeped scope creeped by whoever set them the first place. And say you're in that situation, train mind think about, you know, is it saving money? Right? Is making money? Is it reducing risk? That's about it. I really can't think more. So durable convictions, they need durable contact, meaning with customer contact. And the manifesto says you're working together daily. Right, you and customer the team, know basically all people that working together the durable convictions that most people are used to are the execs decided something and now you're build it. And then the world, the claim here is going be, you can build super fast by, know get that done by end day? remember back day. you get that done end day? Right. And then, and then if it's not customer wants, we can throw away. can, can basically build whole thing because we can build it fast. You build whole thing and then show the customer. And they don't want we'll just throw away. No, no harm, foul because didn't take any effort to it. Sounds glitzy, right? We can build super fast. So throw it away. Disposable. Yeah, it sounds great. But software is not box Kleenex. So here's thing. People forget there are two costs involved here. Right? One is the building cost, not insignificant token cost. So you have that real tangible cost that you're know, your finance people can put finger on it and say here's what costs for you throw this away. They'll put their finger somewhere. They will. They will finance That's one. But more subtle one opportunity cost. You threw that away. You threw next one away. That's two throwways during which didn't do anything substantial that moved the needle with customer. Yeah, going to have to throw away. That's what I'm doing. Get out. You're right. mean, boy, I can. After career that, can imagine how feel about your skills. It's not very motivating, it? I don't think is. Yeah, that's we are going build a bunch of disposable features because cost building is so low. Disposable to who would be the first question that I ask, but] if someone were like asking me about this, like trying to seriously sell me it. I will say disposable to who because [UH] if I show motivated user a couple different prototypes that are working and they go to use one. That's great. I sold them. I made the sale me and sales give high fives all around. They get paid. get nothing. Long story. Right. But customer might immediately start using because remember we're pushing these out production. They're real potentially real. But they're real. So the customer now sold on something they're use. I'll come back the office. Now politics sets in. now the pace change sets in can have that database there. Oh, to change this infrastructure. Oh, you sure you have this because it's very expensive to support that. Now have person babysitting this because remember didn't scale stuff. just spun up million prototypes. So now have bunch internal discussions and now customer is relying on something. The customer in like day or two makes it part their internal process because they love much. So we become those guys that are constantly deprecating things that people like and love. You're essentially forcing your customer to always upgrade the latest version. We all know software like that. We all hate it. Yeah. So be there. Yes. Don't be that guy. Yeah Right. Don't So there is a takeaway. Stop asking whether your convictions are durable. Whatever that means. And start asking who was the room when these convictions were set the first place. So who set the current strategy? Like I want names like write them down on a napkin. Thank very much. were any customers in that room or any the builders? This is big one representatives from the teams. Yeah. and then which disposable features have customers depending [UH] on that feature? which ones we taking or are we playing show gantt here? Which ones we taking away? yeah, that's good point. That last one also has an element risk attached to it because if you're you've got multiple customers and who doesn't write and have feature that you're thinking about disposing, deprecating or whatever. Yeah, somebody could be using it unbeknownst to you. And now you're have upset customer [UH] you have to keep your, you know, have to keep your eye all this calibrate that[UH] when you're throwing things away. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Now throughout the bathwater with the baby. Oh, it's not getting any better anyway. So so know comments. Can name one conviction at your company? The one conviction at your company that you're pretty sure was never tested against market customer or I mean really living people be honest and this podcast works. Every version of[UH] to prove that this pitch that you're hear is going include stories of team that shipped without any of the baggage that people on real software development teams haul around Sprint Sprint. OK, so let's know the comments if you can resonate with any these. And while you're there, like and subscribe. That's right. So here shape of every story is going to reach for. A small cross-functional team, a designer and handful engineers working directly with business shipping hours instead days weeks with almost no process overhead a product person editing this there. That's term home that is star. That's new term [UH] Flood of already built options for the same feature rather than planning and scheduling at a trickle That's the AI-era success story. Wow[UH] it's also word for word. The team and the job. The agile manifesto described way back in 2001. Oh that's so weird. I get luckily none us[UH] existed in 2001. So we would never know that. Oh boy. Listen, empowered teams always shipped like this Yeah. Empowered was never toxic word back day. Well, what was missing was the org moving the authority to where information lives. Yeah, this is team level. This is again, this is another principle. This is build projects around motivated individuals. Give them the environment support they need and trust them to get job done or just have your finance guy like keep them on a tight leash that was was deeper the principle. just nobody read that for. And team level autonomy meant know you let them decide how they're going to build things. So the agile principle number 10, my favorites [UM] simplicity, the art of maximizing amount work not done. I focus on what matters and just that nothing else. know that that's funny. seems conflict directly with with the folks here saying it's like we'll build 30 features. That's right. So they're free. They've deviated from manifesto some time ago just looking their shoulder thinking where did we go wrong It's like are there arguing points against this one. There are arguing points. None them good. me tell you first one. Oh, we tried this 2014 and it got shut down. We tried agile here. Didn't work. It didn't work because we're special. We're special. are special. Listen, if you tried agile and didn't work, I have a podcast for you listen to. It's It's arguing agile. 83. Oh, back the day, agile doesn't work here. October 2022. Unbelievable. Four years ago. Unbelievable. They've been so much change in tech and with AI everything that podcast from 2022 is still completely relevant. Agile doesn't work here. Go figure. Yikes. What else here? manifesto is silent on product management. Oh, that's it. the That's academic viewpoint. listen, the manifesto didn't none of those people were product managers. So you're doing a, know, search in a document, maybe the I don't know, some guide somewhere. You're not find the term product management, but know function existed. It was buried under different terms back day so I'll give you couple. Right? Product marketing, manager. General manager was one. Yeah, that seems to exactly general fallen out vogue now. GM was was the main one in 2001. Yeah. The bottom line was you had P&L responsibility. Right. For your line of products or a product or a line of service it did exist. It just wasn't called a product manager until somebody made it, the vogue, right? When somebody made You mean someone wanted sell books? that you say? Yeah, books. And and getting lecture. this is is 2001. be books on tape. I'm just saying the practitioner is going say the speed of [UH] I left this one verbose because we need read whole thing. Yeah, considerate. OK, to take the full pretentiousness of OK, listen, the speed of AI lets one quote editor and a few agents replace a whole team. I almost said agile team, but editing at that volume requires new skills we need, we need better product managers with new skills. What doing past is not good enough. You need new skills by my book. right we need need evals and taste[spits in pretentiousness] and need fast kills of things that aren't going work sooner rather than later. need you be as close decision as possible It's whole different world. I'm still waiting for those new skills coming out of that discussion because I'm not seeing any. be honest, I'm seeing some words that really are terrible. Like product taste. You have product taste. got look at it. You've gotta lick the product. This Yeah, don't understand it. You know, what you're working the the airplane business? go go lick an airplane. Yes, This yes. is stupid. I think some these are devolved from product sense, which is different thing altogether. Right I can get along with that. product sense. Yeah, yeah. But, like product sense was like thing you actually to do job to, to, to learn product sense. had have some basically called experience and then our knocks. Yeah, But, but taste is something that like you don't need experience that. can, you've got good taste Boy, these terms really are nauseating [UH] Eval. We always had that. We call them assessments. We did. Oh, we call them tests before that. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Right. So the more things change, the less I'm liking this. I understand. But listen, you're not being team player. No, no one's getting paid with your attitude right now. I need you to, I need to. need, need, need move on to some better points. OK, listen, teams did ask for these things and leadership shut it down permission was always the constraint. Permission was always constraint in 2001 when writing manifesto and previously and it's still been the 25 years past the manifesto still been constraint holding all this stuff back. And fact we're going take that point edge then push it over and watch fall when Deming wrote his books the early 80s, it still was problem there. It still was problem there and still is problem now. The David Marquette, the L. David Marquette book. Yeah Same, issue. Yeah, same same issue his books. Exactly. Yeah, I dealt with it lot better than most organizations do though. By actually letting go of his power. Yeah And that's where lot this falls apart is people don't let go of power to justify their position. So you have to come me with decision for me to either say yeah or nay. Yeah That hasn't changed Kumar Dattatreyan did a podcast and just put out an article today in fact, was on LinkedIn on this very topic. Right? People that are up there in that. What's word? Echelon. Oh, think say rarefied air. That's what is. Yeah. In that stratosphere they find it very difficult let go. That's because there's no oxygen. There's no oxygen. So they've lost all sense of rationale. It's It's true. In a world where you cannot like where you require a sense control and low ambiguity to feel OK, you shouldn't be working tech or software at that point because you're going to, you're not those two things. That's lower trust environment, right? You're not get those two things tech. And know funny thing in this broadcast if I'm also going to let kids down hard and not easy is [UH] empowerment. I can't help with that. AI can't help you with your empowerment problems. No, in fact, can give you a false sense of like an illusion basically. Right? You're you're right. It will actually will do opposite because again, the people designing the tools [UH] much like people designing social media, they want it be addictive. So they're never tell you're wrong. they're to that out what your beliefs are and then reinforce them back you. And now you've got this weird cycle of reinforcement is not good for you. Even when you're wrong, some these[UH] tools are so sycophantic. Right. Right. that's a great idea. Right. Except Opus 5, which is terrible all the time Dario. You're listening this last point is really good one editing 10 prototypes without customer is 10 guesses. I love word editing. Editing. Yeah, pretentious. That's career now. Apparently yeah, an editor. Editing one with customer is decision I liken this the, you know, throwing darts at dartboard except not at dartboard. So every dart that lands is basically not. Well, mean, like you think about, think about the AI folks selling their services their, their products stuff that. Like it's just not sexy to say like it's self -serving though. It's but what the first dart you throw, first guess that you edit, it lands, right? You're done understand. But you can't collect fees after that, can you? The successful folks out there know that, you need find customer that really wants that thing. And then you cut everybody else out. Go work with that one customer know, look at this way. Like the perfect analogy this like diet books. Like the perfect diet book is most boring book you've ever read. exercise every day, take in less calories than you expend every day. And then weight loss will be over a long period time, slowly at glacial pace.like no one's buy. one's going shell out money buy that book. OK, you need change all terms. throw some down that gets attention quick. Like the 10 prototypes. Wow, that's so many. Gets attention quick. OK. Like what impact does that make? None. know how many customerscustomers are really hooked None. Yeah. wonder from customer's perspective though also. Right. You try few these things that and then nothing works does that erode trust in the company from customer's perspective or are you OK with just going along blindly? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. I know you're asking. I don't know the answer to that. don't know it's [UH] seeking alternatives. Honestly, I were customer, think would exhaust the patience of your customer first. But I also have been in shops without designers and shops with designers. Yeah. And I will say this one is night day with the shops with designers versus without. Because I try best be like a really bad designer for free until the company sees the benefit of, oh, we really like this activity. We would like someone do full time. And then they hire designer. And the whole culture changes because now we treat what this is talking about. Now we treat this as like a real adult skill that we would like to have in the business of there these avenues we can go down and designer will sit down and talk people, work through the workflow. know, like again, we're back the diet books, like boring stuff, you know, mapping business processes workflows having essential having one one interviews with customers and users and stuff like real[UH] you're not selling any like road maps are all dead by my consulting services. You're not selling anything with this stuff that is essential and everyone will do. including people selling you on roadmaps dead if I have takeaway here, it's stop taking anyone seriously that credits AI for small empowered teams and start asking who was blocking those teams all along. That's good takeaway solid. Name team that shipped like this pre. Why did they stop? Yeah, right. And will leadership allow this without the story? Likely not because everyone jumping bandwagon. I will say though, listen [UM] I there's a there's a steelman side that did not present itself very well here that says if the story gets you there, who cares like just use it to get you this empowered team and take win. It was sort practitioner earlier day. podcast. that one, mean, if that was way that this being presented in, hey, roadmap's dead. Like I can you to empower teams and like maybe Agile can get there. But this can hot wire that you can take red wire black wire kind hot where I'm together. Great. Do it. How can we do it? Sign me up. You know, absolutely mean, that's just really leveraging A.I. in the right way. Right. I feel that's not what's being sold No, unfortunately, that's, that's true. So here's what we want you to tell us in the comments Has your team ever tried shipping like this? Small empowered teams talking directly with customers [UH] before I. And if anything stopped you, what was it that stopped you from shipping like this? we started with trying sell you on the last roadmap pitch and whatever products services were offering were enabled whatever. And and then we found out that what was being quote killed was never really roadmap begin was just [UH] a chart with a product badge on it written by the same C -level person that now has turned around their new job is selling you back the replacement. So everything in the pitch that works, small trusted teams, short cycles, customer contact, being able say no because you're empowered like the Agile Manifesto after all stuff in 2001 before any all were born not you Ed! So now we'll leave you with the one takeaway can pause and write down and put on sticky side mind in coming week to think about. And this will help you figure out if your org is [UH] I guess I'm say serious about this or not. OK. Mm And to honest, you think about your life. That's I'm saying for you all that are listening podcast, I will narrate these for you. Number one says what survives you strike every date from your roadmap. Nothing, Brian. Nothing survives. Yeah, that's everything has date on my roadmap. Yeah [UH] Number two, what was your last customer conversation that was tied your top quote conviction. I love word conviction. And then number three, who vetoed your last small fast shipping attempt? Who vetoed it? Wow. Yeah, all solid. So which one is going on your monitor, Brian I really like top one. I really like number one. What survives strike every day the roadmap because most people like, are talking about? Every, every item the roadmap has a date. I'll you what survives the roadmap. chart survives. All you do re baseline Oh no. That's what do. More diamonds later on. Oh boy, like a kick the can down the road. what you're doing be like Jamie Diamond shine bright like diamond. Oh boy. Well, I know you crazy diamond. That's that sounds like problem Jamie. That sounds like problem. right. Well, if you enjoyed this podcast and[UH] you have dates on your roadmap, let us know comments. And also, while you're comments, like and subscribe! That's right.